The Decadent Society: How We Became the Victims of Our Own Success

The Decadent Society: How We Became the Victims of Our Own Success

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  • Author:Ross Douthat
  • ISBN:1476785252
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Summary

From the New York Times columnist and bestselling author of Bad Religion, a “clever and stimulating” (The New York Times Book Review) portrait of how our turbulent age is defined by dark forces seemingly beyond our control。

Today the Western world seems to be in crisis。 But beneath our social media frenzy and reality TV politics, the deeper reality is one of drift, repetition, and dead ends。 The Decadent Society explains what happens when a rich and powerful society ceases advancing—how the combination of wealth and technological proficiency with economic stagnation, political stalemates, cultural exhaustion, and demographic decline creates a strange kind of “sustainable decadence,” a civilizational languor that could endure for longer than we think。

Ranging from our grounded space shuttles to our Silicon Valley villains, from our blandly recycled film and television—a new Star Wars saga, another Star Trek series, the fifth Terminator sequel—to the escapism we’re furiously chasing through drug use and virtual reality, Ross Douthat argues that many of today’s discontents and derangements reflect a sense of futility and disappointment—a feeling that the future was not what was promised and that the paths forward lead only to the grave。

In this environment we fear catastrophe, but in a certain way we also pine for it—because the alternative is to accept that we are permanently decadent: aging, comfortable, and stuck, cut off from the past and no longer confident in the future, spurning both memory and ambition while we wait for some saving innovation or revelations, growing old unhappily together in the glowing light of tiny screens。

“Full of shrewd insights couched in elegant, biting prose…[this] is a trenchant and stimulating take on latter-day discontents” (Publishers Weekly, starred review) and an enlightening diagnosis of the modern condition—how we got here, how long our frustration might last, and how, whether in renaissance or catastrophe, our decadence might ultimately end。

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Reviews

Chris Boutté

In the nicest way possible, I’ll say that I just don’t think I’m the target audience for this book。 While Ross Douthat is an excellent writer, the entire time I read this book, I kept asking, “Who is this book for?”。 The book is basically just a commentary on the current state of the world and Douthat’s opinions on everything from politics and technology to social justice issues and global warming。 I personally look to books to learn something new or get a unique perspective on various topics, b In the nicest way possible, I’ll say that I just don’t think I’m the target audience for this book。 While Ross Douthat is an excellent writer, the entire time I read this book, I kept asking, “Who is this book for?”。 The book is basically just a commentary on the current state of the world and Douthat’s opinions on everything from politics and technology to social justice issues and global warming。 I personally look to books to learn something new or get a unique perspective on various topics, but this book provided none of that for me。 If you’re someone who doesn’t keep up with world news and/or are looking for really base-level commentary on the state of the world, you may love this book。 Again, there’s no denying that Douthat is a great writer, but this book just wasn’t for me。 。。。more

Gilbert

I went into this one with high expectations, they were not really meet。 That is not too say that the book is bad, however it is somewhat predictable, and for someone interested in the (and similar) subjects not much new。 Nevertheless a good introduction, just not that revolutionary for me。 3。5For better books on the subjects discussed in this book I would recommend (contemporary sociopolitical analysis) the following: Why Liberalism Failed (Patrick J。 Deneen) and The Strange Death of Europe: Imm I went into this one with high expectations, they were not really meet。 That is not too say that the book is bad, however it is somewhat predictable, and for someone interested in the (and similar) subjects not much new。 Nevertheless a good introduction, just not that revolutionary for me。 3。5For better books on the subjects discussed in this book I would recommend (contemporary sociopolitical analysis) the following: Why Liberalism Failed (Patrick J。 Deneen) and The Strange Death of Europe: Immigration, Identity, Islam (Douglas Murray) 。。。more

Erin Toburen

While agreeing with much of the premise, I spent 200 pages trying to see if I'd find a point。 It's refreshing to find a solid conservative thinker, but I'm guessing this book is not Mr。 Douthat's magnum opus。 While agreeing with much of the premise, I spent 200 pages trying to see if I'd find a point。 It's refreshing to find a solid conservative thinker, but I'm guessing this book is not Mr。 Douthat's magnum opus。 。。。more

Robert

Douthat makes a compelling case against America’s decadent society, specifically naming technological and economic stagnation as markers。 But since we (at least, a sizable majority of “we”) live in relative peace and comfort, what would it take to shake us out of decadence? Probably the aliens, tbh。

Grant Petersen

On the second to last page, Douthat repeats a faulty premise that permeates through the entire book, “So for anyone inclined to regard human history as a story being told rather than just one damn thing after another。。。”Douthat seems to believe in meaning。 That the world and human life has inherent meaning。 But, there’s no evidence for this。 The march of science has continuously revealed the random (or determined, or some combination of the two) evolution of the world, rather than its intelligen On the second to last page, Douthat repeats a faulty premise that permeates through the entire book, “So for anyone inclined to regard human history as a story being told rather than just one damn thing after another。。。”Douthat seems to believe in meaning。 That the world and human life has inherent meaning。 But, there’s no evidence for this。 The march of science has continuously revealed the random (or determined, or some combination of the two) evolution of the world, rather than its intelligent design。 Claiming that the world is “decadent” or otherwise systematically at the end of its story is simply a failure of imagination。 The world is constantly exploding into existence。 It’s fun to paint a story in hindsight or plot a future chapter。 And humans seem to be wired to do this。 But the world isn’t wired for humans。 It’s the other way around (Darwin)。And so, in my view, the project of humanity is to recognize contentment and wellbeing in the present moment - in harmony with the exploding universal horizon - rather than find meaning。 Indeed, there’s no real meaning to be found looking back or forward。The only place you can find “meaning” is here and now。 You can navigate the world in better or worse ways and live a better or worse life in consequence。Yes, narratives are part of the casual chain that shapes humanity, and they can have a large effect on the world。 But at the end of the day, they are a coarse tool。 They are never fully accurate or true。 And because of this, they don’t take deep roots and globally scale。 Otherwise, they’d be truth。 Instead, most often, narratives are just intellectual entertainment。The best course forward, individually and societally, is to seek truth (about the human condition, consciousness, the cosmos) and optimize。 For, truth is the only thing that scales in the long run。 Most people intuit this and act accordingly。。。 even while they tell themselves a false, comforting grand story。Douthat misunderstands the physics of ideas。 Bad ideas die over time。 Iron Age religions won’t be the future。 Nor will failed political projects。 The future will be something unimaginable and incredible。 Otherwise, it’ll follow a bad idea and fail。 But, didn’t we already know that? 。。。more

Robin

The author is obviously very accomplished but this book is too vague to be helpful。 It does provide thought-provoking concepts on a high level。 He could be right about many aspects of society, but our country is so culturally varied it is hard to use labels that encompass all of us at least at the same time。 If I were handed this book again, I would skim for content of interest only rather than read it。

Anna Abernathy

This book started as a critique of overly indulgent Western society and took a surprising and unexpected turn towards apocalyptic Christian theology。 I think the theological undertones detracted from the original thought project。

Bob Andrews

Supposedly a conservative intellectual writing columns for The New York Times, Douthat straddles the political-cultural fence。 And that’s at the root of this failure of a book。 He manages to provide some insightful, debatable points about the political and cultural stagnation of our current 20-30 years of history (he defines decadence as stagnation, basically)。 Compare a photo of any street or any graduation, or a movie made, or books written in 1952 to 1972, then compare 1998 to 2018。 The first Supposedly a conservative intellectual writing columns for The New York Times, Douthat straddles the political-cultural fence。 And that’s at the root of this failure of a book。 He manages to provide some insightful, debatable points about the political and cultural stagnation of our current 20-30 years of history (he defines decadence as stagnation, basically)。 Compare a photo of any street or any graduation, or a movie made, or books written in 1952 to 1972, then compare 1998 to 2018。 The first time period is dramatically different and alive; the second, mostly interchangeable。Beyond that, there’s not much here。 Lots of praise for the space flights to the moon, which he thinks is the apex of our cultural accomplishments, and some cute observations of sex and movies and religion。 As solutions, he looks to Africa, to Islam, or global socialism, or maybe space exploration。 To begin, he fails to provide any deep analysis of historical stagnation and fails to present any big ideas or even evaluating competing ideas。 Just more pithy prose that adds nothing of substance。 。。。more

Kev Smith

A terrific Book that tries to explain how America (and hence Australia) has basically 'hit a brick wall' in its development in many ways unlike in previous generations when 'something new' came along to liven up the people。 Ross also puts forward a few scenarios which the West might follow in the years ahead。 The book is well written and the author has done his research The narrative flows well。 It is easy to read and digest even if a bit scary。 I loved this book。 A terrific Book that tries to explain how America (and hence Australia) has basically 'hit a brick wall' in its development in many ways unlike in previous generations when 'something new' came along to liven up the people。 Ross also puts forward a few scenarios which the West might follow in the years ahead。 The book is well written and the author has done his research The narrative flows well。 It is easy to read and digest even if a bit scary。 I loved this book。 。。。more

Griffin T

Eh。

Cgallozzi

Listened via Audible。。。。"Those whom the Gods wish to destroy they give twenty years of success to。。。。"I read Russ Douthat's (conservative) column in the New York Times。 While I don't agree with him - I value his writing。Douthat frames the 'current situation within rich countries in the West' as (uniquely defined) Decadence - using as examples:Economic StagnationDecay of Political InstitutionsIntellectual exhaustion - Cultural repetition (?)Low Birth RateDouthat believes the 'peak times' were the Listened via Audible。。。。"Those whom the Gods wish to destroy they give twenty years of success to。。。。"I read Russ Douthat's (conservative) column in the New York Times。 While I don't agree with him - I value his writing。Douthat frames the 'current situation within rich countries in the West' as (uniquely defined) Decadence - using as examples:Economic StagnationDecay of Political InstitutionsIntellectual exhaustion - Cultural repetition (?)Low Birth RateDouthat believes the 'peak times' were the 1960's with the U。S。 focused upon 'putting a man on the moon' - and the attendant lunar landing in 1969 - it's been (in his view) 'downhill' from there。Douthat is strongest on his description of Economic stagnation - 'okay' about his description of the decay of political institutions - I wasn't overly impressed with his dialogue about intellectual exhaustion and cultural repetition (Lady Gaga as a replacement for Madonna?)The described model here makes several assumptions concerning civilizations。。。。once they attain the 'decadent' status Douthat refers to usually these civilizations see themselves beset by some challenge/calamity。 Perspective here needs to document that the Roman Empire lasted many hundreds of years after it may have reached it's peak。 So perhaps the Barbarians aren't as of yet。。。"At the Gate"。。。Douthat doesn't delve into 'why' the current situation exists except as part of a subtle model that civilizations (may) evolve to this 'decadent' state。 Douthat also doesn't suggest many solutions。 In face Douthat suggests 'n' scenarios that may exist after (Rich Western) Civilizations emergence from this decadence。This is an interesting analysis - with strong and weak points。 I don't agree with all the points。Douthat writes well in many sections especially economics and politics - and its worth a read and a think。Recommend this book for consideration。Should be of interest to those who read about current economics and current politics。Carl GallozziCgallozzi@comcast。net 。。。more

Matt DosSantos DiSorbo

An important book。 The best job I've seen of conveying the Zeitgeist。 An important book。 The best job I've seen of conveying the Zeitgeist。 。。。more

Alex Yauk

Entertaining, balanced, plausible。 Challenges my general optimism。 Not necessarily convincing, but definitely leaves me thinking。 Incredibly timely and relevant (perhaps to a fault?)。 I'm excited to continue following and reading Douthat。 Entertaining, balanced, plausible。 Challenges my general optimism。 Not necessarily convincing, but definitely leaves me thinking。 Incredibly timely and relevant (perhaps to a fault?)。 I'm excited to continue following and reading Douthat。 。。。more

Anthony Rodriguez

3。5 stars。 Interesting read。 Not at all what I expected。 Part analysis, part thought experiments serving as remedy。 Occasionally pretty dire。 At the very least, it helps to explain so much angst in the world。

Harooon

When Francis Fukuyama talked about the “end of history”, he meant in the sense that liberal democracy had won the war of ideas。 Having proven to be more resilient, adaptable, humane, and effective than its competitors - namely fascism and communism - it might grow or adapt, but the fundamental terms on which it was constituted would not change。 As a result, the west now considers itself as living in the final epoch of humanity society, with all that remains being its perfection。But mere success When Francis Fukuyama talked about the “end of history”, he meant in the sense that liberal democracy had won the war of ideas。 Having proven to be more resilient, adaptable, humane, and effective than its competitors - namely fascism and communism - it might grow or adapt, but the fundamental terms on which it was constituted would not change。 As a result, the west now considers itself as living in the final epoch of humanity society, with all that remains being its perfection。But mere success - having outlasted your enemies - does not make a society lively or energetic or hopeful, and in The Decadent Society, Ross Douthat makes the case that the liberal democracies of the west have become decadent。 To understand what this means, he turns to cultural critic Jacques Barzun: All that is meant by Decadence is “falling off。” It implies in those who live in such a time no loss of energy or talent or moral sense。 On the contrary, it is a very active time, full of deep concerns, but peculiarly restless, for it sees no clear lines of advance。 The forms of art as of life seem exhausted; the stages of development have been run through。 Institutions function painfully。 Repetition and frustration are the intolerable result。 Boredom and fatigue are great historical forces。 From this, Douthat distills decadence down to four factors: stagnation, sterility, sclerosis, and repetition。StagnationStagnation means the end of economic and technological growth and innovation。 The spacefaring ambitions of 1960s America are a major point of contrast with the mood of today。 The American public imagination was so captured when Neil Armstrong walked on the moon that it was perfectly sensible to expect to be exploring and colonising the stars by the turn of the millennium。 Space was just another problem to solve, another frontier to overcome。 This obviously didn’t happen。 The sense of confidence and possibility offered by extraterrestrial expansion ground to a halt。 Perhaps there are limits to human growth and expansion。 Perhaps this earth, with all of its superhero movies and giant oil rigs and Ubereats, really is all that we’ll ever have。Economic stagnation isn’t just a slowing of growth, it is also an end to the dynamism which characterised America’s high fortunes。 Under threat of stagflation, the liberal economies enacted monetarist policies which may have saved their economies, but also hollowed out their working classes。 This caused an attendant collapse of manufacturing in the west and culminated in the entry of China into the World Trade Organization in 2001。In these new conditions, liberal democracies have become “captured economies”, where only established wealth and vested interest have enough power to influence economic decision-making。 The small and new businesses that might have taken the risks necessary to keep the economy vibrant are squeezed out。 Large parts of the decadent economy are reduced to mere rent-seeking, in which the privileged classes get rich passively。 Every institutional advantage accrues to them and they consolidate their position。 They become the elite。Unlike societies of the past, in which elites may have been born into their position, but had corresponding obligations to those below them, the elites of the decadent society justify their position through the same principle that allowed them to rise up to it in the first place: meritocracy。 Because they’ve theoretically earned what they have on the basis of their own competence, they need not spend it on any obligations to a common good。Douthat's point here echoes what Christopher Lasch (praisingly quoted elsewhere) wrote in The Revolt of the Elites: An aristocracy of talent - superficially an attractive ideal, which appears to distinguish democracies from societies based on hereditary privilege - turns out to be a contradiction in terms: The talented retain many of the vices of aristocracy without its virtues。 Their snobbery lacks any acknowledgement of reciprocal obligations between the favored few and the multitude。 Although they are full of “compassion” for the poor, they cannot be said to subscribe to a theory of noblesse oblige, which would imply a willingness to make a direct and personal contribution to the public good。 Obligation, like everything else, has been depersonalized; exercised through the agency of the state, the burden of supporting it falls not on the professional and managerial class but, disproportionately, on the lower-middle and working classes。[1] As well as economic stagnation, there is technological stagnation。 It’s not 100% clear what Douthat means by this; a more explicit formulation may have aided his point。 It appears to mean that we haven’t made any new, life-changing technologies recently。 The internet is the last big one, he says。 We may have gotten smartphones and social media since then, but not self-driving cars or automation like we were promised。 He also invites us to consider a thought experiment: would you rather (A) keep 2002 electronic technology, but not use anything invented since 2002, or (B) use everything invented in the past decade, but give up running water and indoor toilets, and have to deal with these things by hand? Most people choose (A)。I don’t see what this proves though。 Douthat equates “technological stagnation” with “lack of new technologies that satisfy needs”。 It's not clear how different a technology needs to be to be considered new (or even a “technology”), but we are always coming up with new software to run on our computers and phones。 The mass adoption of these devices for new purposes is always rapidly changing our lives。 This is still (digital) technological growth。 Digital technologies are rarely adopted to satisfy some material need。 Most of our needs (in this sense) are already satisfied。 Sanitation and running water are, to some extent, material needs, while digital technologies almost never are, so of course it’s harder to imagine a life with poor sanitation and running water。From a user perspective, the frontiers of digital technology are not external or physical or material。 Rather, by offering leisure, health, and convenience, these technologies present us new opportunities to express ourselves。 Yet they simultaneously strip our lives of the conditions in which we might develop ourselves to the point of having something worth expressing。 New technology always claims to make our lives easier, healthier, and better, when it is usually just making our lives more convenient (for both ourselves and those selling the technology)。 It eliminates the drudgery of life so time-poor yopros can try another kind of pale ale while scrolling through Twitter。 The “need” for this technology is fashioned out of our desire and laziness and anxiety。When enough people adopt something, and a critical mass is achieved, it then becomes possible for society to be reorganised in broad strokes based on the assumption that everyone is using that thing。 Those who aren’t are effectively forced into using it because of the new burden on maintaining their social and economic relations in the old way。 Keeping up in the rootless global world requires you to always be moving with the digital sprawl。With this in mind, there are many technologies that have genuinely changed how we live。 Tinder is a big one, having transformed the terms on which we seek romance。 Google and Wikipedia have essentially monopolised the distribution of “information” (now thoroughly devalued by its over-abundance)。 For more mundane examples, living without a phone for six months, I quickly discovered that many services (even public ones) require you to have one in order to sign up。 Almost no place or business has a clock anymore。 The electronic bus timetables, which tell you what time the bus is scheduled, don’t actually tell you the time; you’re assumed to already have it。The hardware may be old, but technology itself isn’t stagnating。 It’s accelerating。 It is changing our lives additively, with new pieces built on top of the old pieces。 Everything is premised on this fact。 City-planners and shop-owners don’t put clocks in their buildings, because they assume you already have a phone (no one has a watch these days)。 If you want to apply for a job at the local supermarket, you have to do it online。 People expect the internet and phone lines to always be available, so they expect to be able to do all of their banking online and their transactions via EFTPOS, so physical branches begin to be understaffed, and then they close。Because this change is additive, it’s much harder to conceive of life when you take away the older technologies。 You can’t just get rid of the one piece of technology you don’t like without first undoing everything that was built on top of it。 If you pull out a block from the bottom of the jenga tower, the whole thing is likely to collapse。 And all of that change has supplanted the need for human labour and knowledge。 Certain kinds of expertise have become obsolete, so we collectively forgot them。Most of us considering the thought experiment have no idea what it’d be like to live without modern plumbing and sanitation。 We have no idea what that would involve。 Our cities and homes have changed based on the assumption that you don’t need to know。 Most of us remember 2002 though。 Our lives may have changed a lot since then, but we can still imagine the layers we’d have to peel off to get back to CDs, walkmans, and alarm clocks。 That makes the prospect of going back to 2002 far less daunting than going back to wells and outhouses。 It says nothing about whether technology is changing our lives though。If you grant my argument and accept this more expansive view of what it means for technology to be growing (or stagnating), then contrary to what Douthat says, technology is booming。SterilityThe second symptom of a decadent society is sterility。 To sustain itself, a society has to replace its dying members。 Birthrates in the west are collapsing for many reasons: changing social and religious attitudes, changes in how we are socialised, widespread contraception and abortion, the lack of need for domestic labour in post-agricultural households。 Israel is about the only exception。As medicine, nutrition, and healthcare have improved, people are living longer and dying less。 The elderly make up a greater proportion of the population, but as homo oeconomicus, they are less productive than the young。 Their proliferation means declining GDP growth and a contracting economy。 Japan epitomises this; their growth has been pretty flat since the 90s。Sterility and demographics isn’t just about staying alive, it’s also a mechanism for keeping society dynamic。 The elderly see the world in more fixed categories, whereas the young are still forming their mind。 This better positions them to see new opportunities in their surroundings and, with more energy and fewer attachments, they are more willing to take risks。 As a society ages, it loses its dynamism and vibrance and becomes sterile。 This sense of fading power is captured in Alfred Lord Tennyson’s poem Ulysses。 The ageing king, having reflected on all of his battles and adventures, longs for a return to the vitality of his youth: Tho’ much is taken, much abides; and tho’We are not now that strength which in ol daysMoved earth and heaven, that which we are, we are;One equal temper of heroic hearts,Made weak by time and fate, but strong in willTo strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield。 Douthat makes another interesting point about ageing societies - one I’d never heard before - which is due to Thomas Piketty。 Wealth is more likely to accrue in a smaller family with fewer branches than in a bigger family with more branches。 And since we are having smaller families, the problem of wealth (and power) concentrating in the hands of fewer people is exacerbated。The decadent society has so far avoided demographic collapse through a mixture of quantitative easing, low investment rates, and mass immigration。 While immigration is often promoted as a necessary imperative of saccharine multiculturalism, it has a more cynical function in propping up our moribund economies。 Meritocracy again helps here, as it means the west can poach the best people from developing countries without ever having to contribute to their education or upbringing (and in some cases, their integration)。 The post-industrial west is like a vampire: it sucks up all the youthful vigour from the developing world。Mass immigration and meritocracy help keep a decadent society alive, even if it’s dead on its feet。 Douthat calls this “sustainable decadence”。 This approach doesn’t actually seem all that sustainable to me though。 The “developing” countries will slowly become “developed” countries, at which point they won't be so easy to exploit, and may demand fair compensation for the value of their labour and industry。 The recent decision by Ghanaian president Nana Addo Dankwa Akufo-Addo to stop selling cocoa to Switzerland portends this。Maybe these countries will never be free。 Maybe the decadent west will impose new political and economic terms to strangle their development, so as to ensure the steady supply of cheap goods, materials, and labour continues。 In such conditions, violence might start to look like a good solution for the exploited。 Either way, mass immigration and meritocracy are band-aids to sterility and stagnation, not solutions。[1] Christopher Lasch。 The Revolt of the Elites。 pp。 44-5。[2] Before phones there were analog watches, but those require you to manually synchronise them, so public clocks were still useful for keeping the time。 Once everyone got digital watches and phones, there was suddenly no need for public clocks。[3] https://www。ghanaweb。com/GhanaHomePag。。。(cont。) 。。。more

Ali Eirabie

Ross does a good job in explaining how the rate of invention has slowed down。 How we have become a stagnant, sterile and stable society。 if you look at the measure of change from 1930 to 1950 or 1950 to 1970 or even 1970 to 1990, there were huge advances being made, but were you to time travel from 2000 to 2020 nothing major would be different, in movies culture, world events except perhaps a larger virtual world。 All our physical world has been discovered and mapped and we have stopped to think Ross does a good job in explaining how the rate of invention has slowed down。 How we have become a stagnant, sterile and stable society。 if you look at the measure of change from 1930 to 1950 or 1950 to 1970 or even 1970 to 1990, there were huge advances being made, but were you to time travel from 2000 to 2020 nothing major would be different, in movies culture, world events except perhaps a larger virtual world。 All our physical world has been discovered and mapped and we have stopped to think about outer space。Pornography, Twitter and violent video games have made it safer in the real world allowing people to vent via technology, online rage and escapism to virtual。 Even the recreational drugs being used now are a sort of anti social drugs, where the person can go for hours without eating, socialising, etc in an alone state。 How the world has come to a stalemate, and everything is either halted with no new ideas being generated be it politics, the space race, movies, etc。 Algorithms are used to just keep creating more and more of what is enjoyed by the masses making very few variants available。 There is a pessimistic approach which he tries to tie in with religion and God but it wasn't clear。 I enjoyed the first 2/3 of the book but the conclusion seemed to be lost in confusion, which is mostly because it is quite difficult to predict what could/ might happen。 。。。more

Andrew

Every possible issue worth discussing is discussed。 Global warming? Check。 Declining birth rates? Check。 Religious decline? Check。 Africa? Check。 Aliens? Check。 Techno-futurism? Check。 But in true Douthat fashion there is no solution given。 Instead every solution is given。 And every scenario of mass death and societal collapse is given。 And you're left feeling overwhelmed。 But that's probably because you're decadent。 Every possible issue worth discussing is discussed。 Global warming? Check。 Declining birth rates? Check。 Religious decline? Check。 Africa? Check。 Aliens? Check。 Techno-futurism? Check。 But in true Douthat fashion there is no solution given。 Instead every solution is given。 And every scenario of mass death and societal collapse is given。 And you're left feeling overwhelmed。 But that's probably because you're decadent。 。。。more

Andrew Wolgemuth

A significant (and sobering) theory posited compellingly by Douthat。

Michael

I can’t decide if Douthat here is a de Tocqueville for our age, or just an intellectual skylark。

Kevin

3。5 - I’m partial to the argument and Douthat’s writing remains relatively sharp and peppered with his unique blend of traditionalist and pop culture references but mirroring his own feelings on society, it feels ultimately pointless。

Phil

Erudite and thought-provoking。

Kin Guan

It’s a long treatise that describes the “decadence” of the society, notably the western one, in this era。 To me what the author describes is a “steady-state” in mathematics where no rate of growth (or decay) is observed。 I particularly like the chapter on “waiting for the barbarians”。 Foreign, novel and unpredictable forces are usually needed to disrupt the “steady-state”。

Colin Thomas

I like Ross’s perspectives on The Argument and in the Times。 I think a healthy dose of conservative opinion now and again is good for you and Ross nails the nuance about as well as anyone else could。 I grew up around intellectual Catholics who talked Ross but weren’t half as wise as him。 He makes many simple and compelling points and then interrogates them from many perspectives, including the left’s。 These bits were he runs his own arguments through the ringers of different viewpoints are the b I like Ross’s perspectives on The Argument and in the Times。 I think a healthy dose of conservative opinion now and again is good for you and Ross nails the nuance about as well as anyone else could。 I grew up around intellectual Catholics who talked Ross but weren’t half as wise as him。 He makes many simple and compelling points and then interrogates them from many perspectives, including the left’s。 These bits were he runs his own arguments through the ringers of different viewpoints are the best parts because he’s so good at it。 He’s clearly very well versed in all kind of different perspectives and ideological camps and his respect for them shows。 Interesting read, though I’m not altogether convinced that decadence is a new problem in America, a high priority problem, or even a problem (all caveats he acknowledges often throughout the book as well)。 。。。more

Alex Perkins

One of my favorite contemporary essayists giving precisely the kind of language and diagnosis for the malaise of our times。 Really compelling read。 Some of his best work to date。

Moses

This was excellent and timely, although I wonder if Douthat would change anything after Covid and George Floyd。 As a journalist, Douthat readily admits the "nowness" of his book。 It is not one for the ages; its time-bound prescriptions will not weather the passing years。 For historically-minded people, then, Douthat's book should be paired with historical-cultural studies of decadence in earlier human societies。 I'm looking for that kind of book now and would appreciate any recommendations。 This was excellent and timely, although I wonder if Douthat would change anything after Covid and George Floyd。 As a journalist, Douthat readily admits the "nowness" of his book。 It is not one for the ages; its time-bound prescriptions will not weather the passing years。 For historically-minded people, then, Douthat's book should be paired with historical-cultural studies of decadence in earlier human societies。 I'm looking for that kind of book now and would appreciate any recommendations。 。。。more

General Kutuzov

Much of this is true, but Douthat invariably paints with the broadest of brushes。 Kind of reminded me of Chris Caldwell’s book Age of Entitlement, a similarly mediocre book。

Daniel

Douthat makes some good observations。 His arguments fall apart anytime he brings up religion, seeming to think that people are either atheist, passively religious, or insane extremists。 Talking up the Pope like accepting climate change makes up for all the awful things they did, covered up, and are still doing to actively hurt and demonize just all kinds of people。 Specifically with Islam there is a snotty attitude like it's some kind of virus infecting good Christian countries。 Glossing over th Douthat makes some good observations。 His arguments fall apart anytime he brings up religion, seeming to think that people are either atheist, passively religious, or insane extremists。 Talking up the Pope like accepting climate change makes up for all the awful things they did, covered up, and are still doing to actively hurt and demonize just all kinds of people。 Specifically with Islam there is a snotty attitude like it's some kind of virus infecting good Christian countries。 Glossing over the fact that American religious extremists are just as bad as Muslim extremists。 Touting Christianity coming back from large cultural shifts like the Enlightenment and the Communist threat as if being the dominant financial and military power since the Roman empire didn't have anything to do with that。 Such an underdog。Trump is pretty much the epitome of the theme of the book, meanwhile Ted Cruz who is the less flashy version of the same coin is wholly absent。 You can see it as an attempt to give the anti-Trump Republicans something to focus on while they were perfectly fine with Mcconnell allowing Pence to fill the Federal government with Christian extremists。 Its a wonder how the minority political party manages to stay in power despite how obvious all their efforts to remain relevant are。 Gerrymandering, unconstitutionally blocking people from voting, and all the double standards whenever they are in control。If you want to talk about decadence, maybe address where the financial resources of the country are going。 It isn't going into any programs that advance opportunities and expand health and wellness to all it's people。 Do you think bailing out failing private industries and tax breaks for the mega rich just might have something to do with why our society ground to a halt during Reagan, dragged after W, and nearly imploded with Trump? The killer was calling from inside the house the whole time and wants us to know this isn't the time to talk about what we should do about all these people dying in the house。 。。。more

Lorcan Neill

Ross Douthat's newest book offers a pretty typical conservative critique of the 21st century。 He does the usual bothsiderism when discussing the detrimental impacts economic inequality, inadequate healthcare, and climate change blaming both Democrats and Republicans for our current state of decadence。 Like most conservative commentators he also has what I consider a weird obsession with the role that sex, video games, and secularism contributes to the downfall of society。 At one point he even se Ross Douthat's newest book offers a pretty typical conservative critique of the 21st century。 He does the usual bothsiderism when discussing the detrimental impacts economic inequality, inadequate healthcare, and climate change blaming both Democrats and Republicans for our current state of decadence。 Like most conservative commentators he also has what I consider a weird obsession with the role that sex, video games, and secularism contributes to the downfall of society。 At one point he even seems to make a tacit link between violent video games and violent crime (a theory that has long been discredited and shouldn't be in a book by someone of Douthat's prominence)。 Douthat's big reveal/remedy for society to no long longer suck is to either bank on an even greater influx of techno-optimism that will spur some new utopian technology or to wait for World War 4 and all the innovation that comes with war。 My other major issue with Douthat is that he seems to get so close to diagnosing why there are so many social issues present in the West, mainly America, without actually fully getting there。 Many of the ills that are impacting millions of people are due to conscious policy decisions that have been made over the last 50 years。 Douthat never addresses the fundamental reason。 That is why America has fallen behind the rest of the West is because of the Republican Party's blind commitment to free-market fundamentalism that is the reason why our healthcare and education system are insanely expensive, why there is huge wealth inequality, and why corporations have been able to destroy the environment for profit。 It's hard to take Douthat seriously when he is critiquing these issues when the single major reason why the US is in this position is because of policy decisions made by his party and the people he votes for。 Don't act like you are some "holier-than-thou" conservative commentator when you have also been complicit in supporting the political positions that have caused the issues you bemoan in your book。 Overall, I'm not sure that this book is really worth the time。 You could probably get the same insight from just reading Douthat's NYT lukewarm columns。 To be clear, I don't dislike Douthat and think he is one of the better conservative commentators around but I just don't think this particular work is all that profound in the way he wants it to be。 。。。more

Phil Costa

Thought-provoking analysis of our current times from one of my favorite opinion columnists from the New York Times。

John Newton

I found the first half of this book extremely engaging, as Douthat demonstrates quite definitively how our society, by almost any measure you care to choose, has ceased to progress and levelled off for fifty years or more。 His future scenarios, however, I found less convincing, although I readily admit I am no expert here。 I enjoyed his conclusion, in which he wistfully suggests the possibility of a renewal of Christian faith, for which I too hope。 [This is a minor nitpick and certainly did not I found the first half of this book extremely engaging, as Douthat demonstrates quite definitively how our society, by almost any measure you care to choose, has ceased to progress and levelled off for fifty years or more。 His future scenarios, however, I found less convincing, although I readily admit I am no expert here。 I enjoyed his conclusion, in which he wistfully suggests the possibility of a renewal of Christian faith, for which I too hope。 [This is a minor nitpick and certainly did not detract from the quality of the book: I suspect the author was the victim of spellcheck, e。g。, several times he used the noun “prophecy” where he intended the verb “prophesy”。 A better editor might have caught this。] 。。。more